Skickat från min iPhone 20 mars 2025 kl. 18:10 skrev Tzadik Vanderhoof <tzadik.vanderhoof@xxxxxxxxx>:
I stand corrected. You are indeed correct Dr Baptiste is not in one of those 2 categories and appreciate being educated on that.
My basic contention relevant to IETF members stands. You, as a member, have all the information you need to determine if you are at risk of being denied entry.
This is clearly not the case. A scientist like Dr Baptiste has every reason to believe there is 0 risk of any sort of issue visiting the US. Until now.
The vast majority of members are not outspoken critics of the US government, nor criminals, not terrorism advocates.
Are you equally critical of say, China, and many other countries, which routinely denies entry to critics of its government?
We expect less of China and for that reason don’t host that many IETF meetings there
And the worst that will happen is being denied entry. This is the epitome of "low probability plus low impact", which rational decision makers judge as not worthy of influencing behavior.
It is unbelievably naive to think this will end well for every Dr Baptiste.
Would you consider (say) Philippe Baptiste “a gang member or an advocate for a terrorist organization” (see e.g., https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/trump-musk-french-scientist-detained)?
It is not irrational to be concerned non-US citizens may be denied entry to the US (and be required to assume the costs of return).
Regards, -drc
Is this perception of "risk" based on any evidence? What exactly are you "at risk" of happening to you? Can you point to any example of whatever you're afraid of having happened?
I'm assuming you're neither a gang member nor an advocate for a terrorist organization. As far as I know, these are the only types of people that have been affected by any adverse actions, and the only thing that's happened, even to them, is removal from the US.
I assumed we were a group of rational thinkers. I can say categorically that I will not risk going into the U.S. for the foreseeable future, despite holding a valid visa.
Multiple individuals I have spoken to have echoed this sentiment - including people who have pulled out of events like nanog. The risk is just to great for a foreigner and the situation is to fluid to know what’s going to happen going forward.
Andrew People may be willing, but their families and their employers and the companies that insure their employers may well take a different view.
Stewart
Willing and resolute people who understand the importance of supporting Ukrainians regularly take trains from neighboring countries. Anything else?
Regards, Greg You wrote: I don't think we would have continued with a meeting in Kyiv had one been planned.
Why do you think an IETF meeting would not happen if it were planned in Kyiv?
Destruction of the main airport for a start.
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