Re: Remote hubs (Was What should we do?)

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On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 2:04 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

As a reminder, we did try to run remote hubs for IETF 98, when there was an issue with folks being able to reach the Chicago venue. Warren Kumari and

I forgot about this.


As, embarrassingly, did I. 

Ted had CC'ed me directly "in case he [I] has more details in his files; what I have indicates that we had very low interest in the same time zone theory and we dropped that site.". That seems to align with what I remember, but it's sufficiently long ago that I've flushed all of the info from my cache.

I do remember that there was an ICANN meeting in Nairobi, Kenya in 2010. There were some specific concerns around safety[0] and so there some people organized remote hubs (Dhaka, Reston, and SFO). I participated in the meeting in person, and so I don't have first had experience,  but:
1: ICANN is a very different beast to the IETF, and the number of parallel sessions is different
and 
2: from what I heard, the experience was not great.

Some more info on the hubs is here: https://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/nairobi2010/remote-hubs.html , but I'm not really sure how much we can extrapolate from all that...

Personally I think that, with our current remote meeting technology, remote hubs don't really make sense[1] - the benefit of "onsite" meetings is bumping into each other, hallway tracks, shared breakfasts, hiding in a corner and working on drafts, etc. Having remote hubs with e.g 1/2 the (onsite) people in one location and the other 1/2 at another results in much less than half of the utility - Metcalfe's law says that the value of a telecommunications network increases proportionally to the square of the number of connected users, and it feels like something similar happens with people at IETF meetings…  :-P

I think that it would be better to just go fully remote instead — the logistics of having enough spaces to cover the different tracks, the difficulty in having multiple rooms with good audio and video,, the lack of cross-pollination with disparate groups, etc all seem like they would negate the benefits of having people together…


W

[0]: The US State Department and UK had issued a specific warning about possible suicide attacks by Al-Shabaab on the Kenyatta Conference Centre for the timeframe of the meeting (e.g: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_8828/security-information-11feb10-en.pdf) , leading to many companies withdrawing travel - e.g https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/kovach-to-beckstrom-12feb10-en.pdf 

[1]: The one obvious exception to this is where we are trying to build communities and help newcomers participate - I think that having mini-IETFs (sort of like the "NANOG on the road" concept) is very useful.



I think, by the time it was announced, I had already booked to Chicago.

This is not to discourage continued thought on it, only to remind folks that we did try this once before, and that the quick-and-dirty version was not really a success. A new run at this will take sustained effort and

*once* is the keyword.
I don't know how to make it better; but one question was whether or not there was a hotel, and was the hotel able to feed breakfast at IETF breakfast time?

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
-= IPv6 IoT consulting =- *I*LIKE*TRAINS*



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